God Part II
God is Omnipresent. Therefore he is in all possible worlds. If he is in all possible worlds then he is in both the supernatural and the natural (our) world. By definition the supernatural world would have to be outside of the natural world, or else things considered supernatural would also be natural because they actually happened in the natural world. They can not overlap or they would actually be the other. Since the supernatual world can not be in the natual world, and the definition of God included being in all possible worlds, then the possibility of God does not exist.
This same argument holds true for miracles.
P1) Miracles are supernatural occurance.
P2) Supernatural is outside of natural. They can not overlap.
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c1) Miracles do not exist in our world.
posted by Greg at 10:44 AM
14 Comments:
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You just have to have faith. You just have to believe.
George Michael had faith. So much faith that he wrote an entire album about it. R. Kelly believed. He wrote a song about it.
Can't you see that all you have to do is have faith; and believe?
A simple ontological proof by Anselm, paraphrased simply by Anonymous:
P1) God, is at least, an idea of man's
P2) Real things are greater than imaginary things(this includes ideas)
P3) IF God is real then God is greater than anything and everything
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C1) God does exist, since being real is greater than just being an idea of man's.
If we hold to the premise that God is greater than anything and we add to that the premise that real things are greater than imaginary things(ideas) then we can conclude that God does exist. (This was paraphrased pretty crappily but the point is there).
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P1) "There not being a God", is at least, an idea of man's
P2) Real things are greater than imaginary things(this includes ideas)
P3) IF "There not being a God" is real then "There not being a God" is greater than anything and everything
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C1) "There not being a God" does exist, since being real is greater than just being an idea of man's.
haha..thank you for that comment...It would have been nice to spend more than 3 minutes refuting your argument...thank you for signing you name...it shows confidence in your arguments.
existing is greater than not existing.--MAIN POINT
As far as the anonymous siging goes I'm too lazy to go through the registration bullshit that needs to be done in order to have an account that would allow me to have a "screenname." I already tried it once and it was just too much for me to keep caring about it.
That "MAIN POINT" was just put there so that you wouldn't spend more time talking about the rest of my post, which you undoubtedly will now.
P1) I define God to be X.
P2) Since I can conceive of X, X must exist.
_______________________________
C1) Therefore, God exists.
P1) I can conceive of a perfect God.
P2) One of the qualities of perfection is existence.
_______________________________
C1) Therefore, God exists.
It's all the same can-of-worms to me. God can exist because he could be someone's idea or belief. Whether or not everyone else or anyone else believes in that idea, he still exists to that person.
Do the penny test:
Hold out your hand with a penny in it, let it fall to the floor. Do it again. Hold out a third penny. What if we could get ten true christians to pray that the third penny wouldn't fal and hit the floor when you released it? What about a thousand catholics? What about a billion people of any faith? Most people would think it would fall. I know it would.
Okay here's another penny test:
Take two pennies and glue them together. Drop them at the same time as you drop a single penny. would the two glued pennies fall twice as fast? Aristotle sure as hell thought so, and for a couple millenia that was taught to be true based on his teachings.
Galileo thought differently, he decided to actually test the idea that we call gravity. He reasoned that two weighted objects tied together would fall as fast as a single object--he was right. So began some empirical science, and the collective opinion of our universe has been heading in a new direction ever since.
Why do those pennies fall at the same rate; or even at all? Did god do it? No--gravity on this planet did. Why does the wind blow? Why do I alwyas misplace my car keys? Why is Bush such a gel-douche? Obviously, god did it. If we don't know how something works or why it happend, god did it.
This is called the arguemnt of ignorance... aka 'god of gaps'. It is the main conflict between science and religion. As we learn more and more, the gap that god might exist in gets smaller and smaller. There's no longer a need for Zues, because we now know where lightning comes from.
god will keep existing for you in things that you can't explain. Perhaps when you find a better explanation for a given thing, god will no longer exist in that thing for you.
god's probably telling you right now to go sit atop a bell tower and snipe a hundred people. god's calling, you should probably answer. hey-- how come god's always telling people to crash planes into skyscrapers, or kill some people? Doesn't god ever just tell someone "Hey, go take a dump in the passenger seat of your boss' new 2006 Nissan 300ZX!" No. He doesn't.--because a 2006 300zx don't exist, and neither does god.
nice gel-douche comment, i prefer the douche-gel personally... must be a slow day at work four1fool
Zeep!
you don't have to register to sign your name...you can do it like i will at the end of this.
I am not going to waste my time responding to anymore arguments laid out in this comments section. Your comments have been the same intro to philosophy arguments that any intro to philosophy class teaches. If I wanted to argue on the level of the average 18 year philosophy student, I would go back and take that class. (Four1Fool, I especially expect better (and original) out of you!)
-Greg
hahaha, that's good. I actually thought of that after I sent the last one in.
- Anonymous
Greggie-poo. I knew it was pointless to argue this in the first place... I've just always wanted to write 'take a dump on the passenger seat your boss's car' in a sentence.
Four1fool
your whole rant on the pennies doesn't make a lot of cents if you know what i mean!?!
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